Episode 8

Jesse Favre: Are you experiencing stress at work and curious about how nature could help? If so, this episode is for you. Welcome back to Inside the Team with Jesse Favre, the talk show for decoding human behavior at work and coming up with strategies for a healthier work life. So today we're going to talk about something that has been shown to improve your stress, your focus, your creativity. And no, I am not selling you some sort of miracle pill. We are talking about nature, and by the way, I'm not just talking about big epic hiking trips, although those can be fun too. We are going to unpack what it means to step outside, even if your day job keeps you mostly indoors. Joining me today is a very special guest, Sarah Garner, the founder and guide of Evergreen Explorations. Sarah is a 20 year educator and adventurer who is now on a mission to help people reconnect with nature and in turn reconnect with themselves. Her journey started when burnout literally knocked her off her feet, but through some solo adventures and through creating community experiences, she learned that wellness and wilderness go hand in hand. Now I'm sure that you're ready to meet Sarah, but before I bring her in, please make sure to comment and subscribe so that other people can find this amazing episode as well. So move over. John Muir, we got Sarah Garner in the house. Alright, Sarah, it is a pleasure to have you on Inside the Team. Sarah Garner: Thank you so much for having me, Jesse. Jesse Favre: Yeah, so I know that you were the founder of Evergreen Explorations, and we're going to talk more about that in a little bit. But first let's just hit pause to rewind. Talk to me about your path, maybe even literally to getting outdoors. Sarah Garner: Yeah, yeah. Well, when I launched Evergreen, I joked that it was born in Nebraska and raised in Alaska. I was born and raised in Nebraska. Jesse Favre: That sounds like a country song or something. Sarah Garner: You know, it could be. Watch this space. No, I was born in Nebraska, in the country. I grew up in the country, in the woods and the water, and a lot of my friends, I was a latchkey kid. We were feral at least on the weekends, and I grew up outside. And in spite of that, I never really felt like I belonged. I didn't really see myself outside until I moved to Alaska, which is where Evergreen was raised. So really my origin story and Evergreen story are intertwined. I grew up adventuring with my family and I've still got Ziplocs full of pine cones and other things that were found.  This was before Leave No Trace Ethics, but at the time, we were on a budget, that was what we could afford and that's how we were remembered that time. And so I remember that time fondly, but as I got older and started to see more in different people outside, I didn't necessarily see women, diverse bodies out in nature, didn't really feel that sort of sense of belonging. And so sort of fast forward, I thought, well, maybe I'm the one, right?  And I started spending more time outside and that really was kind of the origin of Evergreen. But nature has really always been a part of my life. I used to say it would be my dream job to be a park ranger, and I guess I'm kind of living that dream. I am very proud to say I have 37 junior park ranger badges. That doesn't qualify you, by the way, to be a park ranger. That's not like how you get that job.  Jesse Favre: Street credibility.  Sarah Garner: I don't know if it's even street cred, but I feel good about it. Jesse Favre: I love this about you.  Sarah Garner: Yeah, as I got older, I think for many of us, life takes over and we get pulled away from the things that really matter to us and that we really enjoy doing. And being outside was one of those things. Eventually I realized I either can sit inside by myself or just get outside by myself. And so I actually started spending more time outside solo and I think I really found a different side of nature through experiencing it on my own. It's like traveling or anything else.  When you do it with other people, you're sort of meeting folks in the middle in terms of their expectations and their experiences. But when you're out there by yourself, I think you learn something a little different about nature and yourself. So yeah, long story short, I have been doing more and more of that and Evergreen's really about helping other people to overcome maybe their insecurities or to see themselves outside helping people to find accessible ways of doing that.  Whether it's physical accessibility or I don't have the time because I work, I spend a lot of time inside whatever that looks like, helping more people to get outside and reconnect with nature. Jesse Favre: So I've done a lot of solo travel. I love solo traveling, but I will not say that I've done the degree of nature travel. I've gone to Paris and Berlin. It's slightly different, but a lot of people have asked me, isn't that scary? And in my experience, I've loved it and I'm really curious to hear how does that feel when you are out in nature by yourself?  Sarah Garner: Yeah. I'm so glad you mentioned that. It is hands down the number one question that I get asked. And sometimes depending on how I'm feeling, I like to challenge that because honestly, I think part of that is rooted in my gender. But I think it's a fair question, especially if someone hasn't spent a lot of time outside in general or they haven't spent a lot of time outside themselves. That's a fair question and there's a lot to be afraid of. And I actually think that's natural.  That's our fight or flight mode kicking in. And that actually can be really healthy for us. That's kind of our OG intuition, if you will, that spidey sense or that sort of tangling of, ooh, maybe something's not quite right. And it is important for us to tune into that and utilize that, especially when we're outside, whether we're solo or not. And there are inherent risks with being outside and with being outside by yourself. Your ability to call for help is diminished when you're out there by yourself.  So yeah, I'm scared out there, but the more that we practice something, the easier that it gets. And I've spent a lot of time learning from experience, learning from mistakes, but also sharing tips with other people who maybe want to just dip their toe in, well either the shallow or the deep end of adventuring solo. There are some things that I think change about the way in which we get outside when we're by ourselves. So just to maybe share a couple of them. It can look like just having redundancies in the gear that you bring.  Because you're not relying on your adventure buddy to have extra snacks for you when you get hangry. Or even when I'm camping, I might set out a couple chairs so it actually looks like there's someone else with me. I let someone know where I'm going, especially when I'm out there by myself. So there's different things that you can do, I think also help you feel better about being outside. But so much of it is, I think just experience and trying it being unsafe and being uncomfortable are two different things.  And I think sometimes when something's new or different, being outside can feel scary, especially if you're maybe venturing out solo for the first time. That to really discern between am I unsafe? Is there something about the environment that my body is actually responding to and I need to pay attention to that? Or am I just a little bit uncomfortable? Yes, literally we see or we feel a danger and we've got to either get away from it or fight it.  And that can be really useful to us to a degree, but it can also wreck our nervous system. Rest and digest, on the other hand, what comes from taking care of our bodies. Maybe getting outside, that activates the parasympathetic nervous system that helps calm us. And I would argue that when we're out in nature, actually we can kind of utilize a nice balance of both of those. I've been with so many clients who pushed through a little bit of that discomfort and get to the other side of empowerment.  I wasn't unsafe. I was just a little scared. And even if you're hiking a couple hours down a trail that's local, that's still a solo adventure. And if you're someone that wants to start doing that, I think like anything, you start small and as your comfort zone grows and the zone expands, you take another step outside of it and another step outside of it. That's the way to start. Jesse Favre: I love that. So repetition. So you'll make fun of me. But I was hiking at a sculpture park a couple weeks ago. I was like five minutes out from humanity and was like, this is the end. I heard something in the woods. And so as much as I love solo travel, I totally get why people get scared of this. And so that makes me feel better. I just probably need more experience with all of this. So you mentioned that nature has always been a part of your life, and I'm curious if there was any kind of personal experience or turning point where you said, it's not just that I like to be outside, it's that this is healing for me. Sarah Garner: Yeah. Before I answer that, two things. Let's take the air quotes off of hiking. You were hiking and it's a completely valid feeling. I want to say that too. Everything sounds louder when you're outside, especially when you're outside by yourself, so you're not alone in that. Jesse Favre: Okay, great.  Sarah Garner: But yeah, there was a tipping point. I think we all have one of those in terms of how I would say I sort of returned to nature and returned to myself. I had a mentor once say that every good business starts with a problem that needs to be solved. And in this case, that problem was me or really burnout my personal health decline. That was a result of professional burnout.  And that was really the tipping point for me to not only start focusing on my health, but reconnecting with the things that contributed to it in a positive way. So just to share a little bit, I at the time was working a full-time remote. So from home for a high growth ed tech company, and anyone who knows a high growth startup, you maybe know what that looks like. You wear a lot of hats. It's a long hours. Typically folks are pretty passionate about the work, and I was, but you grind, you work at it. And I'll never forget, it sort of adds insult to injury that it was a Monday that it happened. But I think I had started work at five or six in the morning and it was probably five or six at night, and I had maybe three or four more hours of work ahead of me. And that had become my consistent routine.  At the time, my partner had said, just take a break. I know you've got more to do, but just take a break. And I had just laid down on the couch, fell asleep, woke back up in a panic for having fallen asleep so long, was headed to the freezer for Ben and Jerry's because self-care, at least that's what it looked like at the time. And I passed out on my kitchen floor. And it was scary for me waking up, but scarier to see my partner's face.  And I think burnout's tricky because for most of us, we don't see it happening until something like that happens. And often until we have someone who becomes sort of a mirror for us. And when I think back on that time, I actually picture his face and kind of the fear of finding me like that. And that was such an aha moment for me. I was choosing those hours and I was choosing those habits. So yeah, that was a real turning point for me in terms of my personal health journey.  I started shedding weight physically and metaphorically, really making changes in my life that contributed to me just treating my body better. And a big part of that was getting outside. I had not only, I think sort of forgotten who I was and sort of lost myself in the process, but lost the things that really contributed to my health and wellbeing. And so yeah, that was a tipping point for me to make some personal and professional shifts.  And maybe I didn't know it at the time, but I think I really planted a seed for what evergreen is all about too, which is this idea that nature nurtures us and it's a way for us to reconnect with ourselves, as much as it is about reconnecting with nature. Jesse Favre: I appreciate you sharing what burnout looked like for you. And it sounds so scary, and I hear this often because stress is so incremental and so day to day you don't necessarily notice that it's getting that much worse until the day that you do. So if you are looking back on your life and you see yourself laying on the kitchen floor, what's the advice that you would give that version of yourself or to really anybody who's experiencing burnout? Sarah Garner: Yeah. Well, I'll say just in response to what you shared. So you are so right about stress being incremental, and we hear words like microaggression or micro joy or micro affirmation and even micro stress and it's incremental. And in all of those cases, those different things, those micro things add up to become macro. So small stressors over time add up to burnout. And those things we know from science are captured in the body.  And that's essentially what was happening to me. And I think what happens to a lot of people, and so we all need to probably cut ourselves some slack for when we don't notice it until we notice it. Or something like that happens. Ideally not as scary or traumatic, but I do think it takes a lot of folks getting to that point to make a shift ideally. But yeah, so many things I want to say to her, some of them cuss words, but if I were treating my past self with kindness and appreciating her for all that she went through for me to get to this point, we're saying this to someone else who experienced burnout.  I would say first off, and I've actually got this mantra, it's on a little post-it note on my computer screen. My resume will not be my eulogy. You heard it here. Jesse Favre: Goosebumps. Sarah Garner: My resume will not be my eulogy. And you can insert whatever else resonates with you there. But I think for so many of us, if we're driven by professional ambition or we get purpose from our careers, we give a lot to it more than we probably can afford to. From a health perspective, my resume means a lot to me. My career, my business mean a lot to me, but they can't mean more than our wellbeing and our personhood.  So I think if I could give myself advice or someone else advice, maybe in burnout right now, it's also, it's never too late to choose yourself, to prioritize yourself, to say, I am putting myself before this person, this position, this profession. And then you figure out what the right boundaries and balance are to be able to do all of that well. But we have to come first. Our life literally depends on it.  And I think honestly, we hear examples of people for whom their resume becomes their eulogy because the way in which they're treating their bodies to accomplish their work to be productive becomes a detriment to them physically, mentally, emotionally. Jesse Favre: I have had multiple people in seminars talk to me after about ending up in the emergency room, cardiac issues. I mean, for some people they've literally almost died from their jobs. And so that becomes that wake up call. So knowing what you know from your own experience and what you've seen from other people, talk to me about what Evergreen Explorations is and who it's for. Sarah Garner: Again, it's really rooted in my personal story of loving nature kind of falling away from it, and then returning to it as a way of rebuilding my health habits. And we talk about how nature nurtures us, and it's so true for a number of reasons, but ultimately it's because that is where we came from. We are nature for the most part, unless you're hearing a bump in the night or a sound out on the trail, for the most part, it calms us. It helps us feel more present.  And it's because that's where we came from. We're from nature, and I sort of say it's like the OG workplace. It's where we as humans lived and worked and played and socialized and all of those things. And I think the more disconnected from it that we get, the more disconnected we get from ourselves and from that nurturing, if that makes sense. And so Evergreen was really founded from this idea that nature nurtures us. And by restoring our connection to the planet, we can store connections between people, not just yourself, but other people too. So our mission is restoring people by helping them reconnect with the planet. And I also like to say for those who may be kind of questioning, this nature really is for everybody. Again, I didn't always feel that way. I didn't always see myself in nature, but it is for everyone.  It can look a lot of different ways depending on who you are, what you're comfortable with, what you're capable of from an ability standpoint, sort of where you are geographically, all of those things. But adventure and nature is for everybody. And our goal is really to help everyone feel some sense of connection to that.  To help everyone sort of maybe push past some of that initial discomfort that they might feel or fear that they might feel to get out in it, whatever that looks like. And I think for working professionals especially, one of the biggest objections that I hear is there's not enough time. You may feel that too. I feel that way still too, even as the founder of an outdoor wellness company.  But it doesn't take a lot of time, it doesn't take a lot of experience. It doesn't take a lot of money or any money. It can literally be walking out the door of your house or your office for 30 minutes. You can walk around your office building and you're in nature. And I think we and our industry unfortunately, has contributed to this narrative that it has to be this big and grand and expensive and long-term thing. And that I think has actually kept people from getting outside more, going back in those micro moments. So yeah, I would encourage folks to sort of think about what that looks like for you? And Evergreen is a space where we can help people again, sort of think about what that looks like, but also maybe expand beyond that. Jesse Favre: You've shared so many examples and the range is walk around your office building to going out doing a hike. Of all these different things that you've tried, what do you feel like recharges you the most? Sarah Garner: What recharges me the most? I want to go back to what we were talking about being solo. And apologies to any of my adventure buddies out there. I love and appreciate you so much. I really like going out solo. I think there is something about being on your own that helps you be maybe not more but differently present. You notice different things. You get to choose how long you're out for, how far you go, what direction you take, how many viewpoints you stop at, how many photos you take.  There's just something for me about being by myself that is recharging. I think I'm also a person that really tunes into other people's experiences. I think maybe other people can resonate with that. So when I'm with other people, I'm also thinking about their experience and making sure that they're enjoying themselves or that they're comfortable. So also when I'm by myself, I'm fully a hundred percent tuned into my needs. Jesse Favre: So you've been to all these different places. If you could pick one spot to send our audience to, where would you send them?  Sarah Garner: Oh my goodness. A thousand percent Alaska.  A thousand percent is where I would take anyone and everyone who would go that far with me. And for a number of reasons. Again, I think Alaska was really the first place, and to this day is the place that I feel such a deep connection with nature and sense of belonging in it.  And I think that's for a lot of different reasons, and I trust people can feel that in a lot of different places. But I think there is something about Alaska, about her that is just so deeply rooted in the land, in indigenous culture. It's so much a part of the state. Tourism is one of the number one industries, but that really revolves around really how much of Alaska is raw and untamed.  I think for anyone who's ever been in any way, it's such a visceral experience. It also has a lot of different ways of being outside for all levels, for all ages, for all people. So I think for it being a place that really anyone can tap into and find something that they enjoy doing outside, that's where I'd want to take folks. Jesse Favre: So Sarah, I heard a little something about a sabbatical that you recently took. What did that look like? Sarah Garner: Yeah, Sarah sabbatical. Great alliteration, right? Yeah. This past year I took some time to really recharge and refocus and kind of recenter my energy outside. And I always feel like I have to give a caveat, it was a working sabbatical. I didn't leave my job or take time off from my job. I didn't have to save for months to do it. I didn't have to leave the country. I didn't do it in a van.  All of these things that I think, again, we think of when we think about a longer term sabbatical or sort of traditional sabbatical, but I was just kind of feeling stuck. And so I split my time between the lower 48 and Alaska, and I'd been itching to get back up north. And so I took some time, about three, four months in Alaska and just spent more time outside, kind of balanced with my work time. The nice thing was the time difference between my full-time nine to five in Alaska, gave me my afternoons in Alaska, and it was winter time. But yeah, I had kind of this extended period of time in my afternoons to be able to do some things outside. And so again, it wasn't a traditional sabbatical in any sense, but when you think about the root of what a sabbatical is, it's about rest and resetting.  And there are lots of different ways that we can do those things. And for me, it looked like getting back up to Alaska and spending some more time outside. Jesse Favre: Now, what was the transition like leaving a sabbatical to go back to the typical? Sarah Garner: It was hard. Jesse Favre: I can only imagine.  Sarah Garner: Yeah. It was hard. I used to lead my background in higher education, and I used to lead groups of college students on service abroad trips, and we would talk about orientation and reorientation. So the sort of reintegration back into whatever your normal or day-to-day life is. And so you would've thought I would've had that experience in mind. And I underestimated how hard that reintegration would be like.  I think this goes for anyone that has a really immersive experience, or whether that's traveling out of the country or going on a multi-day hike. Whenever you have an immersive experience, going back to your daily life can feel like a letdown because it's not that thing. And I was definitely there. No state could compare to Alaska. No hike could compare to the trails there. And I kind of sat in that space for a little while, but I realized that the magic of that experience was not there. It was in me. Jesse Favre: Oh, wow. Sarah Garner: And I think it was for me about taking what I learned about myself, about my business. That's actually where Evergreen was born during that time sort of taking those things and figuring out what about that was so magical, and how can I recreate that wherever I am and just in my day-to-day life. And I think you think about, I don’t know, a faculty member who takes the sabbatical, they're ideally taking some time to focus.  Maybe that's on research, or maybe that's on service, whatever that is. But at the end, then they're translating that into something new. Maybe that's a research study or how they teach differently. It's the same kind of thing, right? It's sort of taking, okay, what did I learn about myself in that experience? And then making that line through every day. Jesse Favre: So I have to ask, what's up with this backpack that's been sitting by you this whole time? Sarah Garner: Yes, yes, yes. This accessory. That matches your set. Jesse Favre: It does. It looks beautiful. Sarah Garner: Yeah. So yeah, I keep my backpack adventure ready at all times. Jesse Favre: Why am I not surprised? Sarah Garner: It sits by the door in my house. Whenever I leave the house, I take it with me even if I have no idea where the day might lead, right? It led me to the studio. But in all seriousness, one of the number one reasons I hear that people don't get outside is time and not having enough time. And the number two reason is I don't think I have the right gear.  And so problem solved. This answers both of those things. Even for me, someone who loves being outside and has built a business around it, time is also a barrier for me. And so I find that if I've got this backpack ready to go, it's by the door. Literally that cuts down on the amount of time that it takes me to get outside. You might want to grab a few more layers, fill up your water bottle, grab some technical gear.  Maybe you need trekking poles or snowshoes, but at least the foundation is here. And there are so many ways in which I think we do that otherwise, right? You keep your gym bag by the door. For parents who are expecting, they keep their go to the hospital bag ready. So I think this is a tip, a pro tip that I would give anyone for whom not having enough time or not having the right gear is the objection. Because now you're ready.  Jesse Favre: I love it. I need an adventure bag. I need an adventure bag. Sarah Garner: You do. Jesse Favre: And I hear the same thing all the time. When I work with groups about burnout and stress, when we talk about micro breaks, they say, well, I don't have enough time to go outside. And so we talk about, well make sure that you have your shoes by the door. If you work from home, let's get yourself set up. Otherwise, you do lose those little pockets of time. I just didn't consider the adventure bag. Sarah Garner: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what's so great, I can even, you see how I'm dressed here? Literally all I have to do is take my dress off, throw on this black top, and I'm ready to go. Jesse Favre: You actually do have hiking pants on, don't you? Sarah Garner: I do have hiking pants. This is technically UPF. I could hike in this if I wanted to, but I'm ready to go. In fact, if you were to tell me that you had a change of clothes, we could go right now. Jesse Favre: So maybe instead of playing the game that we typically play, do you want to just go on a hike? Sarah Garner: I mean, I'm ready. Jesse Favre: Okay, let's do it. Sarah Garner: Are you in? Jesse Favre: Yeah, I'm in. All right. I'm in. When you typically take a group out, what does the first part of this process look like? Sarah Garner: Yeah, so I like to take advantage of what I call trailhead moments. When you're headed out on the trail by yourself or with a group, you're always starting at a trailhead. And so those kind of become the bookends of the experience. So at the beginning, at the Trailhead, I like to do some introductions, getting to know each other. I think people are surprised to hear that a lot of the time, people who come out on hikes with me don't know anyone else.  They might bring a friend, or maybe it's a mother daughter, but a lot of the time they're solo and they're looking for a group to be able to go out with and looking to meet new people. So we do some introductions, and then we also do both a gear check and a gut check. So the gear check being, do we have what we need to be outside safely and confidently? Do we have water and snacks?  All the things. And then the gut check of how am I feeling right? As I get ready to go out on a hike, maybe I'm still thinking about that to-do list I left on my desk or what I've left behind to be able to spend this time in nature. And so I think that gut check is really important just to kind of check in with ourselves and we can kind of circle back on that at the end to see if anything has changed for us after spending some time outside. Jesse Favre: Well, I even like the gut check from a safety perspective of just like, where is my mind right now? Because even for a hike like this, it's not like we're on Mount Everest, but as a former hospital safety leader, my risk management just kicks into full gear. And so that moment of mindfulness is really important. I even think about it in a hospital, like a morning huddle. We need our time to check in before we go out and do this adventure. Sarah Garner: Definitely. And in my workshops and guided hikes, I talk about our bodies and our backpacks as kind of these twin containers, and what we take in them is equally important. So I think you're kind of hinting at that, right? If I don't have what I need in my backpack for this hike, that could actually be a concern or a safety issue, and the same is actually true. Like, if I am not feeling it or I'm not in the right headspace. That can also be a challenge. And the trailhead might be a place where I say, you know what? Today's not the day. Jesse Favre: Really?! Sarah Garner: Yeah. And I've had people do that, and I do think that that sort of gut check, that acknowledgement of, you know what? I don't want to push it. I think that that can be a really important piece. It's good, but also good to know where our comfort zone is. Now, if it's just like, oh, I'm feeling a little uncomfortable, like we talked about, that's different. But if someone's injured, right? And they're looking at the trail and thinking, Ooh, maybe this isn't the best for me. I think that gut check helps maybe reveal some of those things too. Jesse Favre: Sarah, it has been a pleasure to have you on set today, on Inside the Team. For people who are interested in following your company and following your adventures, how can they best connect with you? Sarah Garner: So yeah, the best place for folks to connect with us is on our socials, on Instagram at Evergreen Exploration singular, Facebook and LinkedIn at Evergreen Explorations, plural. And yeah, we've got a couple of things coming up that I'd love for folks to check out. If you're interested in adventuring in Alaska, we actually just opened our wait list for an adventure retreat happening in 2026 in Alaska. So find us on socials. You can sign up for the wait list.  Now, we've also got a couple virtual programs coming up this winter. So one is around wintering and the idea of using nature as a cue for how we flow through seasons in our own lives. And the other is around how we bring the outside in, how we bring things about what heals us in nature, into our workspaces, and into our homes. Jesse Favre: So a little birdie told me that there's a giveaway that's happening. Talk to me about it. Sarah Garner: Yes, yes, yes. So my challenge to folks who might be watching is if they follow you on Instagram, Inside the Team, and if they follow Evergreen Explorations on Instagram, comment, check, check. You followed both of us. I've got an Evergreen Exclusive 10 essentials gear checklist that sort of talks folks through what they should have in their adventure pack, including some of those things that help to center us outside. So yeah, happy to share that. Jesse Favre: Amazing. So folks, just remember, nature can be whatever you need it to be. Make sure that you've got your Adventure pack ready to go, and we will catch you next time on Inside the Team.