Episode 5

Jesse Favre: Are you interested in using AI in the job search process, but you're also low key, getting a little bit of heartburn over the idea of it? If so, this episode is for you. Welcome everybody to Inside the Team with Jesse Favre, a talk show that gets into what makes us human in the workplace. Today we're going to tackle a leading question from the realm of career coaching, and that is, how do I use AI in the job search process effectively? Whether you love AI or you are totally overwhelmed by the idea of it, it's not going anywhere, and using it well could be the difference between blending in and standing out. Joining us today is a special guest, Alana Lerch. She is the founder and chief Change Officer at Change Raven, which is a career coaching firm specializing in mid-career and executive professionals who are landing high impact roles. A certified PROSCI change management practitioner. Alana blends her corporate leadership experience with a strengths-based coaching perspective to help candidates stand out in a competitive marketplace. She recently launched Job Flight powered by Change Raven, an AI enabled job search solution to streamline the job search process for professionals who are targeting 100K or higher roles. Known for her practical and empowering approach, Alana and her team teach job candidates how to use AI tools while maintaining their authentic voice. Alright, here's the deal. After we talk to Alana, we're going to do an Inside the Team first, and I'm actually going to beam in one more bonus guest. Now, I would tell you who this is up front, but who doesn't love a little suspense. Let's dive in. Well, Alana, it is an absolute pleasure to have you on Inside the Team. Alana Lerch: Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this all week. What a Friday. Jesse Favre: What a Friday. So talk to me, AI, the job search process. Why is this such a hot topic right now? Alana Lerch: Yeah, I would say there's so much in the news and the media about AI, but it's a little bit hush as far as what's acceptable when you're applying for a job and nobody wants to submit a resume and come across as a robot. So I feel like there's some tips and tricks that can be shared so that people are utilizing AI to its advantage, but not losing their authenticity in the process itself. Jesse Favre: That makes total sense. And I know for so many job seekers right now, they're tired. I have friends that have put out literally hundreds of applications, and so there is this desire to be efficient to use your resources wisely. And then on the other hand, like you said, you still need it to be authentic. Alana Lerch: Yes. Jesse Favre: So how have you seen AI used effectively in this job search process? Alana Lerch: So the one piece I have seen AI be very effective is when it comes to preparing success metrics. So you can say, I have saved 25% of time on a certain process, but every job has its own problem statement and solutions that they want you to bring to the table. So how I find AI to be very helpful is to understand what success metrics would be important for this role, and help prompt me or the job seeker to think about previous projects or key outcomes where you can say, yes, I have improved customer experience. Or improved patient care or saved money. So sometimes the success metrics that you have on your resume as a baseline are not really what the job cares about. So utilizing AI to help prompt you and build that bridge is important, but it cannot make up those success metrics for you. Jesse Favre: Wow. So what does the input look like for trying to figure out what type of metrics they're probably looking for? Alana Lerch: You bet. So the first step is I upload a client's resume and the job description, and I ask it, where is there a match in qualifications, skills, and competencies? Then I ask, are there any gaps? And if there are gaps, can you prompt me with some questions to help me pull from my experience areas or key successes that maybe I forgot about or I did five years ago that I can bring to the table? And so that usually helps to get those numbers or percentages or dollar signs to the surface. Jesse Favre: What's interesting to me in all of this is you are a coach and you're making AI a coach as well, right? Alana Lerch: Yes, yes. You're telling AI how to help me effectively, because it'll spit out something, but you have to really digest it and understand if this matches the problem statement of the job? So I always tell people coming forward with your emotional intelligence and an analytical mindset combined with AI is going to be awesome. But AI can't revolutionize your resume and make up all of this awesome stuff about you, or it's going to be so generic, it's going to look like everyone else's resume. So I do have certain talent acquisition managers and HR people say, Hey, I've gotten five resumes this week that looked the exact same with different names. And the reason that happens is someone plugs a job description into AI and says, build me a resume. Well, AI is going to build five resumes that look exactly the same unless you put your own authenticity, your own successes, and your own style into it. Jesse Favre: So that is a telltale sign. Alana Lerch: And it's embarrassing. Nobody wants to be in that place. Right. Yeah. Jesse Favre: What are some of the other pitfalls that you've seen happen when people are using AI in the job search process? Alana Lerch: Yeah, so you'll probably get a kick out of this one is the M dash. So the M dash is a longer than normal dash with, you know, completing the sentence. And it's not how people typically write, but for some reason AI likes to embed m dashes into everything. So if you're seeing a LinkedIn post or a resume, M dashes can really scream out at a hiring manager or a recruiter that you have used AI, which is not a bad thing, but people use AI in different ways. So I always recommend before you're submitting any documents, ask ChatGPT or Gemini or Co-Pilot, whatever you're using, please remove icons and all M dashes. Jesse Favre: Can you walk me through a practical example of how you could effectively use AI to tailor a resume? Alana Lerch: So one thing that I've found to be really helpful is after you plug your resume and the job description into AI, you can also collect the company's mission statement, the cultural values, and plug that in as well. And then use the technology to say, help me write an email to a decision maker explaining that I understand the pain points of their organization, what they're looking to solve, and what I bring to the table. And then most importantly, put in a call to action at the end to say Jesse, could we have five to 10 minutes to talk about this exciting opportunity? I have some ideas for you to help resolve those issues. And so using AI to take it a step further and really get your application noticed, because as you said, you have friends and I have friends too, that are submitting hundreds upon hundreds of resumes. Really using AI to help you stand out by reaching out directly to a decision maker, not with a canned response, but, Hey, I've done my homework, I understand what you're looking for, I know what I can bring to the table and I'm asking you for a few minutes so that I can win you over. Jesse Favre: Are these emails that you're describing taking the place of a cover letter, or do people still use both? Alana Lerch: Wonderful questions. So I always say, if an application requires a cover letter, don't skip it. But the process I just recommended is above and beyond more effective than a cover letter, because a cover letter is submitted through the applicant tracking system and lands in a generic box that someone's going through. The process that I described, the message is going either via email or via a LinkedIn private message directly to the hiring manager or the CEO of the organization. Jesse Favre: And how do people know who the hiring manager is? Alana Lerch: Yeah, so there's a few tricks that you can do. Sometimes in the job description, it'll say, this position reports to the head of the supply chain. So then you can do some Googling and look, or you can go to the companies about a section, and if it's a marketing role, who's the head of marketing, if the position reports to the CEO, that's usually easy to find. So typically, with some detective work, you can find who the hiring manager is. I've also coached clients to call the organization and ask if they could have a phone number or email of the hiring manager for a certain position. And that works really well too. Jesse Favre: Wow. And I want to be clear for everybody who's watching one of her clients actually got a job while she was driving here. So I would say that these are probably like pro moves. Alana Lerch: I should drive around the city more often. Yeah. Jesse Favre: So when a job seeker gets to the point that they do get an interview, which is super exciting, how can they use AI to be even more prepared for that conversation? Alana Lerch: I love it. So ChatGPT has really helped a lot of job seekers prepare for their interviews. And really it's inputting all of the same information that I've already shared, but asking it based upon the skills and competencies for this role, what questions should I anticipate? Above and beyond, you can ask it, please use my resume and LinkedIn profile to give me a headstart on these questions. And so it can kick out a very basic interview guide for you that's usually 75 to 80% there, and then you can fold in your own personal flair. The one thing, Jesse, that I'll share with you as well is reading this interview guide. All of us have tried studying for a presentation or a big speech, and I'm reading the notes. It sounds good, but the number one thing with interviews is to practice your delivery. Because what AI gave you may be a compound sentence that doesn't sound right when you try to vocalize it. And usually you talk in a little bit more of a casual way or have your own pace of speech. So I would say that practicing the delivery either in front of a mirror with a coach, with a friend, with a dog, that is going to work volumes over studying the script. Jesse Favre: The script. That makes total sense. I actually was just a guest on somebody's podcast, and they said, I'm so glad that you're just talking like a human, because the previous guests were reading off of a script from ChatGPT very clearly. Alana Lerch: Goodness. Yes. And usually you can see the eyes moving back and forth. Or for me, I'll get the glare on my glasses if I'm reading something. So that's a dead giveaway. Jesse Favre: Oh, it's a giveaway. Yeah. You gotta get contacts. Alana Lerch: I can't read. I can't read the screen. I'm busted. Jesse Favre: Absolutely. So your love for AI is very apparent and your passion for connecting people with jobs. I've also heard that you had a little launch that came up recently of something called Job Flight. So can you tell us what exactly that is and how it blends AI with coaching? Alana Lerch: I'm so glad you asked this. So the number one pain point that most of my clients experience is applying for jobs takes so much time. So you have to type in your address, your zip code. Why do you want this job over and over for each application? So Job Flight is an AI platform that actually, when you put in your job title and all of the criteria you're looking for, full-time, salary, location, whether remote is a possibility. It actually scans the web for jobs that meet your criteria on LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor company job sites, university job sites, and puts all of those winners in one place. If that isn't cool enough, it also takes it a step further. You can upload your resume and say, Hey, while I'm sleeping, go ahead and apply to those jobs for me. So you can wake up and see, oh, awesome, Job Flight has applied to 40 matches. I'm going to invest my time studying up and getting ready for interviews instead of typing my address and zip code 85 times. Jesse Favre: Bless you. On behalf of everybody that you just saved so much time for. Bless you. Alana Lerch: It's really fun. It's a blast. Jesse Favre:Congratulations on that. Alana Lerch: Thank you. Jesse Favre: And that launched in August? Alana Lerch: It did. It did. Yeah. So I have lots of clients on it seeing excellent results, and when I think about the wave of the future, technology is really going to revolutionize how we look for jobs. So I think dating websites have it really down, right? They're having criteria of two different people and suggesting matches. We should be able to do that with technology for jobs. So there's a finite skillset, competency, and successes that people have. And we should be using technology to make those matches and not necessarily require a hiring manager or someone in HR to talk to 500 people before finding that right candidate. So I think right now the system is bogged down with the number of applications and people spending a lot of time applying. I've done some stats and Job flight saves a job seeker about 65% of job search time. And so that time can be used to practice for interviews, to take a walk, to practice self-care, because like you mentioned, the job search itself can be very draining and very isolating. So you need to find ways to build yourself up, and enjoy yourself along the way. Jesse Favre: Alana, we have not talked about how to use AI for salary yet. Is there one simple prompt that you would recommend that job seekers use when they're preparing for a conversation around salary negotiation? Alana Lerch: Yes, there's a lot that goes into salary negotiation, but use AI as your researcher to understand what other organizations for similar roles are paying. So for example, if the role is project manager, and you're located in Dallas, Texas, you can ask ChatGPT, pull job listings for me in Dallas for project manager roles that have salaries listed. And it can pull all of those back for you. And then you can even say, please give me the average salary for these roles, or please give me the low end of the range to the high end of the range. The other piece that's really important for the job that you've applied to, or the role that you're negotiating for, is to understand if the company is posting the low end to the high end of the range or the low end to the medium, or mean of the range, right? Because if the range is 80 to a hundred, that could be low to high, or that could be low to medium range. And then asking for something like one 20 is still okay. So it's also knowing more about the job you're applying to and then asking ChatGPT or whatever AI tool you're using to do that research for you. Of course, it can't tell you how much you're worth, unfortunately. Only you know that. But having that data at your fingertips is really important, especially when it comes into a negotiation. If you're in a negotiation and someone says, well, why are you asking for 10,000 more? Well, I surveyed 200 companies in the Dallas area and pulled some numbers and it turns out 120,000 is the average going rate for a project manager, then it's kind of hard to say no to that. Jesse Favre: I feel like as a candidate, that would reduce so much anxiety to be that well researched, because at least from my experience, that can be such an awkward conversation of trying to quantify or prove your worth, but to just have the data. In a very calm matter of fact way I can only imagine is wildly empowering. So I think that's a great suggestion. Alana Lerch: I've met with a lot of clients who are negotiating salary, and the best advice I have on how to use AI is to ask it to compare the requirements for the job description against your experience and show where you meet or exceed. So as an example, if it's asking for five years of experience, three of those in healthcare, being certified on salesforce.com, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, you can show where you meet and exceed those expectations. And therefore do that math for the company to say, Hey, here's what you're asking for. I meet or exceed all of these expectations, therefore my salary should too. And what I find is when a candidate does that investigation, it doesn't need to be done internally by HR or the hiring manager, and they have what they need to go to bat for you internally to get that higher salary. Jesse Favre: So this is usually the time where I invite you to play some sort of game, but in this case, my understanding is you actually are bringing a game for me. Alana Lerch: Yes. I have. I bought a game today. I can't wait to play. It's going to be a ton of fun. Jesse Favre: Okay, so you ready for this? Alana Lerch: I am. Let's do it. Jesse Favre: Let's do it. Alana Lerch: Hi everyone. We're playing a game called AI or Human. I have a few statements that a job seeker would share, whether it be on their resume, LinkedIn, or in an interview setting. And Jesse is going to guess if these statements came from AI or a human. Are you ready to get started? Jesse Favre: I think I am. I'm a little sweaty in the palms. Alana Lerch: It's really tough. Just, you know, and I would say follow your intuition here. I think if this crossed my desk and I was hiring somebody, am I envisioning a really awesome authentic person or a robot? Jesse Favre: A robot. Okay. Terrifying. Let's go. Alana Lerch: I am excited to apply for the senior project manager position at your esteemed organization with a proven track record of success and a passion for driving innovation. I believe I would be an excellent fit for your team. What gave it away? Jesse Favre: Who says esteemed? Alana Lerch: No one says esteemed. Jesse Favre: That was it for me. Alana Lerch: Humans don't say esteemed. It does not roll off the tip of your tongue. So one point for you. All right, let's keep going here. The next one. I led a cross-functional team of 12 to implement a new inventory management system that reduced processing time by 35% within six months. Jesse Favre: So I'm going to hope that it's human. Alana Lerch: That is definitely human. Jesse Favre: Because if it's AI, it is so unethical that it is so specific. Alana Lerch: AI can't make that stuff up, right? That has to come from you inputting those successes into the tool. The next one, I spearheaded organizational transformation, leveraging cutting edge solutions to optimize workflows and drive operational excellence across departments. Jesse Favre: Okay, to be totally fair, I know humans who talk like this, but I really want to say that this was AI. Alana Lerch: You are right. I thought the first word would give it away. Spearheaded. I mean, who is walking around with a spear? Everyone in their job has done this statement, helped with organizational transformation, and came up with solutions. This does not make me want to pick up the phone and call you and give you an interview. Good job. Okay, let's see if you can get the last one. One more Jesse, let's go four for four here. Thank you so much for considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss how my experience leading a $5 million business unit can help drive your organizational growth goals. Jesse Favre: I don't want to lose. So I'm tempted to put things both up. But I will say in this case, because you said $5 million, that's specific. And so I would lean towards humans. Alana Lerch: That is definitely human. Yeah. And so I think languages like, you know, thank you for considering, I look forward to, very folksy, casual, you know, nothing too crazy in there. And yeah, the fact that this person led a $5 million business unit, that must be important to the organization for a certain reason. Maybe they're also a $5 million organization. And so finding that common language and talking apples to apples is one way to showcase you are a human and not a robot. Jesse Favre: Well thank you so much for this game. It's not everyday that I get to be the one with the paddle. Alana Lerch: Yes. I hope you enjoyed it. Jesse Favre: It seems like being specific is really critical and the other piece is actually using more conversational language. So if you were to read this stuff out loud, could you authentically do that in your voice? If the answer's no, what I'm hearing is that it's probably going to read as a robot. Alana Lerch: Exactly. If you could walk out of the room and repeat it yourself, it's probably okay. If there's a lot of big words and run on sentences and words like esteemed and spearheaded. Probably not. And I think what you mentioned is specific, the more numbers and evidence you can put into your language, the better. Jesse Favre: Yeah. And numbers that are aligned with what they care about. I feel like that was one of my takeaways too. Alana Lerch: Yes. Very, very important. You got it. Jesse Favre: So Alana, I'm sure that we have folks who are very eager to dive into AI and the job search process, maybe even people who've not used it before. And I suspect that there are some people who are rightfully apprehensive about the safety and the security of all of this. So we're actually going to try an Inside the team first, we are going to phone a friend. Alana Lerch: Yay. I love friends. Jesse Favre: I love friends too. Joining us virtually is Jacqueline Dolly, known as Jax to her friends and to her colleagues. And she is the founder and chief catalyst at Be, Do, Have Results. Jax is a leadership and communications coach, facilitator and strategist who specializes in career design for peak performance and breakthrough results. So Jax, what are some of the top things that job seekers should keep in mind when they want to use AI responsibly? Jacqueline Dolly: Thanks Jesse. The number one thing that we want to keep in mind when it comes to the AI job search is we want to keep AI on our side and out of our business. Don't overshare with AI. When you are talking to AI, let's imagine that you are talking in a crowded coffee shop. Now you wouldn't yell out your full home address, your social security number, your date of birth, or even your bank info, right? So don't type it into the AI tools either. Instead of pasting your full resume with everything on it, strip out the sensitive stuff first. Let AI help you with the words and you can plug in the exact details later. Don't be like the Titanic. Don't leak your employer's secrets and sink your hard won reputation. Protect your current job. AI tools are super powerful, but many of them keep and reuse your data in some way. Don't feed AI your client lists, your internal strategies and roadmaps, non-public financial information and proprietary code or internal documents. Instead, you want to generalize the information that you put into that AI chat box. Use trustworthy tools only that have been vetted, vetted again and again. Before you trust the platform with your resume or your LinkedIn login, you want to first check the URL letting you know it's safe to send your data. Is it a real site or is it a clone site? Lock things down. Use a separate email just for your job searching. Use strong, unique passwords and a password manager and turn on two factor authentication whenever possible. If a random extension wants to access all your browsing data to optimize your job search, that's what I call a red flag in a trench coat. Run. Be super careful with auto-apply and magic extensions. These tools may read your emails and your messages. They can scrape your contacts as well as to store your login tokens before you connect them to LinkedIn or your job boards. Prefer official integrations or tools from platforms that you already trust. You want to minimize permissions. If it wants access to everything, hit that pause button. Every so often, go into your Google or LinkedIn settings and revoke access for those tools you are no longer using. Don't get catfished by AI powered job scams. Scammers are using AI too. They can now generate super polished job posts. They can write recruiter emails that sound absolutely legit, and they can even fake video interviews using deep fakes. So we want to watch out for jobs that ask you to pay upfront for training, equipment, or processing fees. Look out for requests for your social security number, your full date of birth, or your banking details before there's even a real offer on the table. And look out for interviews only on encrypted apps like WhatsApp or Telegram with no company email collection. Finally, keep an eye out for those instant job offers without a proper interviewing process. Look up the job on the company's official careers page. Check the recruiter on LinkedIn and verify the email domain. Does it match the real company? Sometimes I feel comfortable calling the company to double check that that job is real or current. If anything at all feels off, it probably is. AI can absolutely be your secret weapon in a job search. It can polish that resume, help you draft a powerful cover letter and prepare you for interviews. But it should never cost you your privacy, your identity, or your peace of mind. Use AI, protect your data. Jesse Favre: So Alana, you shared so much valuable insight today. I have no doubt that there are going to be people who want to get in touch with you, follow your work. What's the best way for them to do that? Alana Lerch: Yes. So if you're interested in learning more about what it's like to work with Change Raven Career Coaching, please go to our website, www.changeravenllc.com. You can also send me a message on LinkedIn. Alana Lurch, A-L-A-N-A, L-E-R-C-H, and I offer complimentary clarity calls. If you're on your job search and just wanted to talk about how things are going and what is your vision for your future, happy to chat with you. Jesse Favre: Awesome. And Jax, how can folks get in touch with you? Jacqueline Dolly: For a free one page printable checklist, email me at bdhrfreetools@gmail.com and ask me to send you the AI job search safety checklist. Have a productive and safe AI powered job hunt. Alana Lerch: Okay folks, so just remember, if you are using AI in the job search process, throw in some of those really pointed key success metrics, use your tools responsibly, and we will catch you next time Inside the Team.